Let me get this right, I think I have this right.
God never changes, the big word is He is immutable, always the same.
But
Our God is clearly all about relationships.
Relationships by definition continue developing throughout time.
Developing in a relationship involves change.
So on at least one perspective God is always changing.
Before anybody panics I am not aligning myself with several mainline denominations that say that we (humans) decide who God is based on our interpretation of him therefore God is whoever we think he is at the time that we are thinking of him.
I'm also not advocating that with the proper interpretation we can know God absolutely. We can know enough of every aspect of who he is that we can be absolutely right regarding what everyone else should be told and therefore I can become a dictator of truth.
I do believe that God is everything we will ever need in our relationship with him therefore in concept he doesn't ever change, in that nothing is ever added to him to make him greater nothing can ever be taken away from him to make him lesser.
But he does change from our perspective.this idea to make some people very nervous, because if God doesn't change and why have I changed my opinion of him/definition of who he is the longer I know him.
Our perspective of God should in essence always be changing. If we are in a proper relationship with an almighty God than we should constantly be learning more about him.
I believe that by definition relationship is an ever-changing/growing point of contact in our life. A relationship that does not grow will eventually die and become a memory. That memory can be recalled for the sake of the story, reviewed by your self or others, or renewed sometime in the future by both parties.
I do believe there are multiple layers/levels of relationship but all of them involve some point of contact between individuals.
Those layers/levels of relationship are moved based on our growth within the relationship which is usually tied into various threads of time, experiences, emotions, physical connection, and proximity.
All of those aspects are also a part of our relationship with God. And so if we are developing our relationship with God Then our God keeps changing. It is one of the reasons why verses in the Bible "change" their meaning throughout our life as we reread them over time. The words have not changed, God has not changed, but our relationship to the God who wrote the words has changed. And the definitions of those words may have been adjusted based on many factors within our life and experiences.
When your relationship with God grows many times you find that words can not contain what you want to say when describing your relationship with God. Because over time we discovered just how Big He is, we just don't have the words to describe Him any more.
I think the results of this can be scary on two levels.
On one level people see God as unchanging. They believe theologically they have been taught the only right things regarding God's Word and the proper interpretation. Then they no longer have any need to go deeper with God, they only have to seek out others who are wrong and show them the right way.
On the second level people see God changing in their minds and being described differently throughout time, and make the decision that God is whomever they believe him to be. So in essence they become the definer of God and God is ever changing.
One takes away the desire for growth. Because either God is already known and there's no need to keep studying, or God is so great there's no way to ever know him so I will just do what I'm told by those around me.
The other takes away the desire for growth. Because God is whoever I want Him to be whenever I decide to think about Him, so I'm in charge and there's no need for me to grow in the knowledge of something out there when I'm in charge of it anyways.
I am of the opinion that God is way beyond what my little brain could ever contain. I like that about Him . I also believe passionately that God wants us to maintain a connection that is ever-growing not so that I know more about him but so that I love him deeper. And that the love motivates me to be effected in every area of my life by a relationship with the God of truth.
a relationship that is always changing with a God that is always the same.
Wednesday, June 24, 2009
Monday, June 15, 2009
elevate review June 13
Let's talk about sex.... that was one of the intro songs that was sampled before we spoke this week. I say we because if you were not there you missed a tagteam approach between Mike and myself.
We approach the subject of sex because it was the overwhelming topic that those who attend elevate wanted to talk about. We thought it was a subject that would be best handled in a discussion or a dialogue in which Mike and I openly debated/dialogue around the concept of sexuality that most traditional churches tend to ignore. We got to that concept in a roundabout way in my office one afternoon and it turned into a very positive opportunity here at elevate.
We looked at the Law of Moses/God from the book of Exodus. If a man seduced a virgin he was supposed to do at that point go to her father and make arrangements for marriage, and if the father refused he was still supposed to pay the appropriate monetary price for her as though they would've been married.
With this in mind Mike made the statement that in God's view there is no premarital sex. That in God's view when you have sexual relations you are married and the responsible thing to do is to go make it legal in the eyes of society as soon as possible.
With this in mind it seems as though the reason for staying out of each other's pants is because of the value that God places on sex because of the covenant commitment that it represents.
We spent some of our time also reviewing the very guilt ridden, manipulative, traditional,approaches to convincing people to save sex until after they were married. We saw that most of their reasoning had little to do with the value that God places on sex and more to do with the emotional, physical, spiritual damage that premarital sexual partners will incur should you choose to engage in sexual intercourse or some variation of sexual activity prior to marriage.
We noted that it is far easier to dwell on the negative than it is to express what seems to be the positive and valuable view that God has on sex.
In the Bible we saw several examples in which men had sexual relations with a woman and in one case attempted to make things right and marry the woman (Genesis 34) and in the other case the man that did something even worse than rape by locking the woman out of his house (second Samuel 13)
now both of these examples are ugly stories, but we see within them the principle that God seems to have laid out in his law.overall neither of the women involved got married to the man who raped/had sexual relations with them before marriage. But one of the men seemed to make the attempt to make things right even if it was a little backwards.
This seems to be Gods principle in the law laid out in Exodus.
God values sex and what it represents so much that he says if you do it then you need to make things right and commit to a lifetime together.
So rather than tell kids and young adults about the negative effects that pre-marriage sex may develop. We should be telling them that God expects them to marry the person that they have sex with.
in the New Testament we noted that regarding the discussion between Jesus, the disciples, on the topic of divorce. Jesus indicates that if a person gets a divorce and either one of them remarry his they are committing adultery with their new spouse when they enter into sexual relations. This seems to illustrate that when you come together within a sexual contacts it represents a bond between two people that cannot be separated in God's view. This bond will continue even if the couple decides to get a divorce.
when we view this conversation in light of the principle that God laid out in Exodus it seems as though there is a "sex equals marriage" in the way that God looks at it.
This open us up to a lot of very good questions regarding people's sex life, and the cultural expectations regarding it. I will deal with solos questions in the comments section of this blog. We will also continue the overall subject at the next elevate. So if you are only following my blog it will be a couple more weeks before you see the continuation.
We approach the subject of sex because it was the overwhelming topic that those who attend elevate wanted to talk about. We thought it was a subject that would be best handled in a discussion or a dialogue in which Mike and I openly debated/dialogue around the concept of sexuality that most traditional churches tend to ignore. We got to that concept in a roundabout way in my office one afternoon and it turned into a very positive opportunity here at elevate.
We looked at the Law of Moses/God from the book of Exodus. If a man seduced a virgin he was supposed to do at that point go to her father and make arrangements for marriage, and if the father refused he was still supposed to pay the appropriate monetary price for her as though they would've been married.
With this in mind Mike made the statement that in God's view there is no premarital sex. That in God's view when you have sexual relations you are married and the responsible thing to do is to go make it legal in the eyes of society as soon as possible.
With this in mind it seems as though the reason for staying out of each other's pants is because of the value that God places on sex because of the covenant commitment that it represents.
We spent some of our time also reviewing the very guilt ridden, manipulative, traditional,approaches to convincing people to save sex until after they were married. We saw that most of their reasoning had little to do with the value that God places on sex and more to do with the emotional, physical, spiritual damage that premarital sexual partners will incur should you choose to engage in sexual intercourse or some variation of sexual activity prior to marriage.
We noted that it is far easier to dwell on the negative than it is to express what seems to be the positive and valuable view that God has on sex.
In the Bible we saw several examples in which men had sexual relations with a woman and in one case attempted to make things right and marry the woman (Genesis 34) and in the other case the man that did something even worse than rape by locking the woman out of his house (second Samuel 13)
now both of these examples are ugly stories, but we see within them the principle that God seems to have laid out in his law.overall neither of the women involved got married to the man who raped/had sexual relations with them before marriage. But one of the men seemed to make the attempt to make things right even if it was a little backwards.
This seems to be Gods principle in the law laid out in Exodus.
God values sex and what it represents so much that he says if you do it then you need to make things right and commit to a lifetime together.
So rather than tell kids and young adults about the negative effects that pre-marriage sex may develop. We should be telling them that God expects them to marry the person that they have sex with.
in the New Testament we noted that regarding the discussion between Jesus, the disciples, on the topic of divorce. Jesus indicates that if a person gets a divorce and either one of them remarry his they are committing adultery with their new spouse when they enter into sexual relations. This seems to illustrate that when you come together within a sexual contacts it represents a bond between two people that cannot be separated in God's view. This bond will continue even if the couple decides to get a divorce.
when we view this conversation in light of the principle that God laid out in Exodus it seems as though there is a "sex equals marriage" in the way that God looks at it.
This open us up to a lot of very good questions regarding people's sex life, and the cultural expectations regarding it. I will deal with solos questions in the comments section of this blog. We will also continue the overall subject at the next elevate. So if you are only following my blog it will be a couple more weeks before you see the continuation.
Thursday, June 11, 2009
networking an army
Out of speaking today with a wonderful young lady and spiritual leader in our church. And during the conversation she spoke of a encouraging activity that has been taking place across denominational lines. Pastors and churches are beginning to network with each other, and although the reasoning for this has many threads the bottom line is encouraging to the overall body of Christ.
I began to think of my past and how in my past in the church/denomination was viewed more as an Army that needed to focus on accomplishing and a winning a battle.
I believe the unbalanced approach to that concept illustrates another difference between the modern and postmodern mindset. An Army is unified to accomplish one goal. An Army takes its orders without question and follows the strategic plan. An Army gives their individual life for the goal and does so with pleasure and honor.
In the modern era as long as the goal was single the church/Army would be so large it would eventually become unstoppable.
But the Christian walk is more complicated than that and the illustration of an army was divided into two many pieces and eventually every pastor wanted to command their own army. Churches became recruiting zones where we recruited based on what you were going to attack and how good our commanding officer was. As the army grew it was used as evidence that our commanding officer was more appreciated by our commander in chief/God therefore more worthy of being followed and sacrificed for.over the long haul we ended up beating up each other, and losing the battle.
In the post modern era we are beginning to see that building relationships forms a much stronger bond than just seeking to attack something together. That if one has built a relationship with multiple churches or multiple denominations you can accomplish victory and a localized battle without losing unity when the battle is over.
The encouragement of the body/army of God is seen by the conversation and dialogue takes place when the time of battle is over. these encouraging times of networking, of unity is what I believe to be causing the positive atmosphere surrounding the postmodern churches. Many of us middle agers understand the pain and negativity that can be caused when every church has its own little battle to fight and his children when the battle is lost for not recruiting better. Many of us are now enjoying a beauty of being part of something larger, of something that affects our local community but it's part of something from another world or kingdom.
Networking an Army is something that has been taking place for many years, but more recently has been positively affecting the larger church in all it's doing.I believe more recently the Army of God has been centering more on who their commander in chief is rather than who they want to be attacking. I see the Army of God following their leader rather than looking for a fight. I think the Army of God is becoming more aware of the journey that takes place between battles is often much longer it takes much more time than the battle itself.
This should be fun..... I think anyways.
I began to think of my past and how in my past in the church/denomination was viewed more as an Army that needed to focus on accomplishing and a winning a battle.
I believe the unbalanced approach to that concept illustrates another difference between the modern and postmodern mindset. An Army is unified to accomplish one goal. An Army takes its orders without question and follows the strategic plan. An Army gives their individual life for the goal and does so with pleasure and honor.
In the modern era as long as the goal was single the church/Army would be so large it would eventually become unstoppable.
But the Christian walk is more complicated than that and the illustration of an army was divided into two many pieces and eventually every pastor wanted to command their own army. Churches became recruiting zones where we recruited based on what you were going to attack and how good our commanding officer was. As the army grew it was used as evidence that our commanding officer was more appreciated by our commander in chief/God therefore more worthy of being followed and sacrificed for.over the long haul we ended up beating up each other, and losing the battle.
In the post modern era we are beginning to see that building relationships forms a much stronger bond than just seeking to attack something together. That if one has built a relationship with multiple churches or multiple denominations you can accomplish victory and a localized battle without losing unity when the battle is over.
The encouragement of the body/army of God is seen by the conversation and dialogue takes place when the time of battle is over. these encouraging times of networking, of unity is what I believe to be causing the positive atmosphere surrounding the postmodern churches. Many of us middle agers understand the pain and negativity that can be caused when every church has its own little battle to fight and his children when the battle is lost for not recruiting better. Many of us are now enjoying a beauty of being part of something larger, of something that affects our local community but it's part of something from another world or kingdom.
Networking an Army is something that has been taking place for many years, but more recently has been positively affecting the larger church in all it's doing.I believe more recently the Army of God has been centering more on who their commander in chief is rather than who they want to be attacking. I see the Army of God following their leader rather than looking for a fight. I think the Army of God is becoming more aware of the journey that takes place between battles is often much longer it takes much more time than the battle itself.
This should be fun..... I think anyways.
Tuesday, June 9, 2009
complicated is good
My life involves a journey that flows from a very conservative/fundamentalist background. In my childhood and through my college training I was exposed to very sound theological teachings. The theological approach of fundamentalism, and quite frankly liberalism was about the same.
keep it simple.
Boiled theology down to its lowest common denominator. Build upon that foundation a theological house.
For the fundamentalists it was based on Biblical facts. For the liberal it was based on experience. But for both it was a foundation that involve being right. If we are right then all those who disagree must be wrong, and if they're wrong and we have a responsibility to show them the right way.
Over time and specifically in the last 10 years my journey has moved me away from this simplistic approach to theology.yes I would say it's far more complicated and that is good.
let me illustrate by using this simple concept.
When I was growing up the idea of being good was illustrated by not doing anything wrong. Not being wrong was being good.
As this translated into adulthood and infiltrated my theology being good meant making sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. Then helping others be good was showing them where they were wrong so they could be good like me. :-)
being good then also meant I had to be right because by definition I couldn't be wrong about what was good, which meant I had to be right. I was right because I knew what was wrong and anybody who didn't know that they were wrong had to be bad and it was my job to help them be good and right.
So I used my gifts and talents to help others understand where they were wrong, both practically and spiritually. This activity of course made me good and right in my simple little mind.
But being good is not just removing what is wrong it's also doing what is right/good and often that means taking risks and being willing to fail. And the concept of failure is not wrong because in doing good, taking risks, there is no failure only a continuing opportunity. So when I would see people fail I would assume that meant that they were wrong because God would not allow anyone to fail if what they were truly doing was good.
Now I understand that failure is just part of the journey so in reality, a more complicated reality, there is no failure, failure as I understood it before is not wrong, or a judgment of God upon someone but rather the opportunity to walk with God down the path that he is leading. It's the opportunity to continue to take the risk, or go against the odds.
Telling people that they're wrong in order to make myself good only points to my ignorance and arrogance. Not that there is no right or wrong it's just more complicated.
And complicated is good.
keep it simple.
Boiled theology down to its lowest common denominator. Build upon that foundation a theological house.
For the fundamentalists it was based on Biblical facts. For the liberal it was based on experience. But for both it was a foundation that involve being right. If we are right then all those who disagree must be wrong, and if they're wrong and we have a responsibility to show them the right way.
Over time and specifically in the last 10 years my journey has moved me away from this simplistic approach to theology.yes I would say it's far more complicated and that is good.
let me illustrate by using this simple concept.
When I was growing up the idea of being good was illustrated by not doing anything wrong. Not being wrong was being good.
As this translated into adulthood and infiltrated my theology being good meant making sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. Then helping others be good was showing them where they were wrong so they could be good like me. :-)
being good then also meant I had to be right because by definition I couldn't be wrong about what was good, which meant I had to be right. I was right because I knew what was wrong and anybody who didn't know that they were wrong had to be bad and it was my job to help them be good and right.
So I used my gifts and talents to help others understand where they were wrong, both practically and spiritually. This activity of course made me good and right in my simple little mind.
But being good is not just removing what is wrong it's also doing what is right/good and often that means taking risks and being willing to fail. And the concept of failure is not wrong because in doing good, taking risks, there is no failure only a continuing opportunity. So when I would see people fail I would assume that meant that they were wrong because God would not allow anyone to fail if what they were truly doing was good.
Now I understand that failure is just part of the journey so in reality, a more complicated reality, there is no failure, failure as I understood it before is not wrong, or a judgment of God upon someone but rather the opportunity to walk with God down the path that he is leading. It's the opportunity to continue to take the risk, or go against the odds.
Telling people that they're wrong in order to make myself good only points to my ignorance and arrogance. Not that there is no right or wrong it's just more complicated.
And complicated is good.
Monday, June 1, 2009
back from vacation
It's always nice to take off for a few days, well maybe more than a few days but the concept is the same.
What I enjoyed most about my vacation is what I also miss the most while I was on vacation.
Community.
Yeah it was community. I enjoyed being in community while on vacation. My community was much smaller than what I experienced every day in my normal life, but it was a community nonetheless. I interacted and make decisions regarding my time, money, and activity based on my relationship with three other people.
As always the most important person in my local community is my wife. I know that for some that may sound corny but for me it has always been true that my wife and before that as my girlfriend she has always been my best friend. Last year we were married longer than either one of us had been single, and we have been together more than half of our lives. The other two people on this vacation where another couple that enjoy being with. It's kind of weird because we actually don't see them very often (maybe once a year) and yet we seem to work very well as two couples on vacation.
So I enjoyed the community I was a part of, but I missed the community I left behind.
The community I left behind while on vacation is a much larger group. Of course still the most important person is my wife, but she was with me. I left behind my sons and daughter which involve a community within my house of interactions, reactions, occasional drama, and ample opportunity for awesome communication.
I also left community of my neighborhood, which involves my next-door neighbors, a single guy across the street, a very sweet old couple on the other side, and a general awareness of children and families all around.
I also left the community that meets where I work at my church. This is a huge community that involves dozens of students, a large number of families and are connected to the students, the volunteers that help me work with the students, a large number of people that meet for worship on Sunday morning, the pastor and my coworkers.
So while I was gone on vacation I joined a small community but I greatly missed the larger community that I get to interact with a daily basis. It's probably one of the reasons why I enjoy networking on the web. Even if I do not comment and interact with everyone, just being aware of people's movements gives me a sense of connection, of social networking and it brings a level of enjoyment to my day.
I do believe we were all made for community. I also think as I've stated before in other blogs that within our Western culture we disturbed community and emphasized individualism. I believe individualism made an awful lot of people rich but I believe that community is what makes an awful lot of people happy.
As I know many of you probably have plans to travel over the next few months. Whether it's for weddings, vacation, or some sort of combination of events that allows you to be out of your normal routine and places. I hope that while you're gone you get the opportunity to live in community, but I also hope you missed the community that you are not with.
What I enjoyed most about my vacation is what I also miss the most while I was on vacation.
Community.
Yeah it was community. I enjoyed being in community while on vacation. My community was much smaller than what I experienced every day in my normal life, but it was a community nonetheless. I interacted and make decisions regarding my time, money, and activity based on my relationship with three other people.
As always the most important person in my local community is my wife. I know that for some that may sound corny but for me it has always been true that my wife and before that as my girlfriend she has always been my best friend. Last year we were married longer than either one of us had been single, and we have been together more than half of our lives. The other two people on this vacation where another couple that enjoy being with. It's kind of weird because we actually don't see them very often (maybe once a year) and yet we seem to work very well as two couples on vacation.
So I enjoyed the community I was a part of, but I missed the community I left behind.
The community I left behind while on vacation is a much larger group. Of course still the most important person is my wife, but she was with me. I left behind my sons and daughter which involve a community within my house of interactions, reactions, occasional drama, and ample opportunity for awesome communication.
I also left community of my neighborhood, which involves my next-door neighbors, a single guy across the street, a very sweet old couple on the other side, and a general awareness of children and families all around.
I also left the community that meets where I work at my church. This is a huge community that involves dozens of students, a large number of families and are connected to the students, the volunteers that help me work with the students, a large number of people that meet for worship on Sunday morning, the pastor and my coworkers.
So while I was gone on vacation I joined a small community but I greatly missed the larger community that I get to interact with a daily basis. It's probably one of the reasons why I enjoy networking on the web. Even if I do not comment and interact with everyone, just being aware of people's movements gives me a sense of connection, of social networking and it brings a level of enjoyment to my day.
I do believe we were all made for community. I also think as I've stated before in other blogs that within our Western culture we disturbed community and emphasized individualism. I believe individualism made an awful lot of people rich but I believe that community is what makes an awful lot of people happy.
As I know many of you probably have plans to travel over the next few months. Whether it's for weddings, vacation, or some sort of combination of events that allows you to be out of your normal routine and places. I hope that while you're gone you get the opportunity to live in community, but I also hope you missed the community that you are not with.
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