Let's talk about sex.... that was one of the intro songs that was sampled before we spoke this week. I say we because if you were not there you missed a tagteam approach between Mike and myself.
We approach the subject of sex because it was the overwhelming topic that those who attend elevate wanted to talk about. We thought it was a subject that would be best handled in a discussion or a dialogue in which Mike and I openly debated/dialogue around the concept of sexuality that most traditional churches tend to ignore. We got to that concept in a roundabout way in my office one afternoon and it turned into a very positive opportunity here at elevate.
We looked at the Law of Moses/God from the book of Exodus. If a man seduced a virgin he was supposed to do at that point go to her father and make arrangements for marriage, and if the father refused he was still supposed to pay the appropriate monetary price for her as though they would've been married.
With this in mind Mike made the statement that in God's view there is no premarital sex. That in God's view when you have sexual relations you are married and the responsible thing to do is to go make it legal in the eyes of society as soon as possible.
With this in mind it seems as though the reason for staying out of each other's pants is because of the value that God places on sex because of the covenant commitment that it represents.
We spent some of our time also reviewing the very guilt ridden, manipulative, traditional,approaches to convincing people to save sex until after they were married. We saw that most of their reasoning had little to do with the value that God places on sex and more to do with the emotional, physical, spiritual damage that premarital sexual partners will incur should you choose to engage in sexual intercourse or some variation of sexual activity prior to marriage.
We noted that it is far easier to dwell on the negative than it is to express what seems to be the positive and valuable view that God has on sex.
In the Bible we saw several examples in which men had sexual relations with a woman and in one case attempted to make things right and marry the woman (Genesis 34) and in the other case the man that did something even worse than rape by locking the woman out of his house (second Samuel 13)
now both of these examples are ugly stories, but we see within them the principle that God seems to have laid out in his law.overall neither of the women involved got married to the man who raped/had sexual relations with them before marriage. But one of the men seemed to make the attempt to make things right even if it was a little backwards.
This seems to be Gods principle in the law laid out in Exodus.
God values sex and what it represents so much that he says if you do it then you need to make things right and commit to a lifetime together.
So rather than tell kids and young adults about the negative effects that pre-marriage sex may develop. We should be telling them that God expects them to marry the person that they have sex with.
in the New Testament we noted that regarding the discussion between Jesus, the disciples, on the topic of divorce. Jesus indicates that if a person gets a divorce and either one of them remarry his they are committing adultery with their new spouse when they enter into sexual relations. This seems to illustrate that when you come together within a sexual contacts it represents a bond between two people that cannot be separated in God's view. This bond will continue even if the couple decides to get a divorce.
when we view this conversation in light of the principle that God laid out in Exodus it seems as though there is a "sex equals marriage" in the way that God looks at it.
This open us up to a lot of very good questions regarding people's sex life, and the cultural expectations regarding it. I will deal with solos questions in the comments section of this blog. We will also continue the overall subject at the next elevate. So if you are only following my blog it will be a couple more weeks before you see the continuation.
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question is it okay to have sex with someone if I really want to marry them but they are uncommitted to marriage without my knowledge.
ReplyDeleteMy answer is this a believe that the proper pattern is to make a covenant commitment to each other before you have sex. I believe that in forming a covenant relationship together sex becomes a representation of how the two become one. Both physically by entering and receiving one another and spiritually before God.
If you enter into sexual relations with someone for us and then discuss whether or not both of you are committed to marriage and I believe you have done things a little out of order. I also think
if the sexual activity has already occurred in the Biblical principle is you do all this necessary to make things move forward into a marriage relationship. Then if that marriage relationship is cut off by the other partner I would think then you are released for the principle, but I would need to know more in order to be more specific.
Another question if I'm willing to pay for two wives can I seduce two women at once.
Again my answer would be similar to that of the first. I think that the proper order is to make a commitment and then to move on to the physical representation of that commitment.
I do know that in Scripture many biblical/godly characters have multiple wives, but I Never observed anywhere that God endorses such behavior.
Question According to the Bible is sex ever considered a sin .
This is in seems to be involved in not following through on your commitment. It seems to tie into the concept that by having sex without being committed you are lying to the person with whom you are in bed with.
There is also a sin involved with the attachment of your soul to those who are not committed to you. It is why in Corinthians God makes it clear that as Christians the man should not be lying with the prostitutes/priests of the local churches/temples. But in answer to your specific question the actual physical act of intercourse would be simple if it wasn't viewed with such value and intensity by God, but it is so there.
Question if by "paying a debt" after sex is the right thing to do it sounds more like sex trafficking then God's model of the church and Christ.
I would agree with this if Christ had the example of seducing the church before making a commitment to her.
another question
ReplyDeleteis marriage a legal or spiritual union?
In my opinion
the answer is yes
I would say given the principal found in exit is and maintained throughout Scripture if you have sexually committed yourself to each other then the proper thing to do is to go make it legally (that is what ever it is culturally accepted as legal) proper.
Because the physical world reflects what God views as already have been in the spiritual world. But as I've said before I believe the proper order is to make the verbal covenant than the legal, then the sexual/spiritual
Another question
ReplyDeletedoes making things right legally after sexual relations boil down to doing those loving thing.?
Yes, if you have decided to do the sexual thing before the legal thing.
I believe the loving thing... which would be doing that which is in the other person's best interest...... would be to do things in such an order as to honor the authorities in that person's life. Which would mean acknowledging parental authority, spiritual authority such as pastors and teachers, and communicating with other friends and family before going forward with your spiritual and sexual activity.
I think anyways.
I think that's the point of the law in Exodus, is that if you get things out of order the proper thing to do is to put them in order again. It honors and establishes the patterns set up by God.
Another question
ReplyDeletedoes that mean I should go marry my high school boyfriend?
While this is a very good question it opens up a rather large concept/subject of restoration and repentance and spiritual renewal.
My short answer would be no probably not.
To continue the concept though it would be important to let your high school boyfriend or girlfriend understand that what you did it together sexually you now understand to be far more valuable than at the time of your activity.
I think it would be important for your ability to break off any sort of connection between your spirit that was connected to their spirit during your physical activity to be able to communicate to them that you are stepping forward in your walk with God and allowing God to restore your soul to its completeness that it once was. I think you can ask God to break any connection that you've had with previous sexual partners and I believe that you can send back anything you might've taken from your previous sexual partners and I believe that you can in essence start over again on a spiritual level holding the same value of sexual activity that God does.
I understand that's a ton of stuff in a short paragraph, but I hope it helps.
Another question
ReplyDeletewhat is the legal Biblical age to have sex?
There are a couple thoughts that come to mind regarding this question.
One the legal age for consensual sex is 18.this is the cultural authority that should be honored based on other principals in God's Word.
two the Biblical age for having sex is when you are able to obtain permission from proper authorities to enter into the covenant/marriage relationship with a partner.(this would involve parental relationships, spiritual relationships such as pastors and teachers, and significant relational connections that your future partner values)
The principle we are referring to, that was seen in the book of Exodus and is repeated again in Deuteronomy is that should do not follow that order and you decide to have sexual relations first thing you need to make things a proper and go back and get permission from the authorities in that person's life.
biblically speaking there is no specific each given as to when sexual activity can occur, God leaves us principals whereby our earthly authorities and biblical responsibilities are the filters through which sexual activity should be viewed and ultimately take place.
If you're simply asking one of my old enough to have sex I would say when you're old enough to get permission to marry. I guess that's my short answer.